Quote of the Day

I don’t know if God exists, but it would be better for His reputation if He didn’t.

Jules Renard

Comments (6)

RDOwensFebruary 6th, 2010 at 8:07 am

Hmmm . . . perhaps you should invest in Pascal’s Wager. ;)

CarlFebruary 6th, 2010 at 9:02 am

Actually Pascal’s theory is flawed in that he only accepts a narrow Christian definition of “god”.

Perhaps one were to take him on his bet – and live life following the decrees of one religion or another. Most Baptists believe that Methodists are going to hell, don’t even go to the fundamentalists. And forget the Catholics…

So now I need to flip a coin many times to narrow down just which sect of Christianity I need to follow and hope that I selected the correct one, because their loving God is very particular.

Nah – I would rather live my life according to one rule that seems to extend beyond all religion, and is a thread common to most – “Treat your neighbor as you would like to be treated.”

Beyond that – if the Christian “loving” God that demands that the only way to him is by blind faith that can never be proven punishes mankind for using the brains and logic that he supposedly endowed us with – I don’t know if I want that kind of love.

RDOwensFebruary 6th, 2010 at 9:26 am

Then perhaps Rabbi Kushner would be a better model for you. FWIW, that doesn’t make Pascal’s theory flawed; it’s a rather sound argument logically speaking.

CarlFebruary 6th, 2010 at 10:26 am

he theory is very definitely flawed – the purpose is to keep you out of hell. So, which of the thousands of gods do I choose? You see, if I choose the wrong god, the “real god” in loving charity will cast me into a lake of everlasting fire – or Sheol – or whatever that particular religion’s version of damnation or outer darkness is.

Also Pascal claims that if you choose a god, and are wrong, then nothing is lost? Nothing? What about the six times a day one has to pray if one is Muslim. Oh wait – if someone chooses Islam, and the Christian god is the right one, they are going to hell, as are all Jews unless they “accept Jesus Christ as their personal savior and Messiah”.

But what if the Jews are right, and Jesus is nothing more than pagan myths rehashed and Jesus is a newer version of Mithras, or the son of Isis? Oh – but there I go again using logic and the brains that this loving god so endowed me with, and then told me that he is going to cast me into the burning flames of hell for not casting aside and relying on pure faith that defies all reason.

And what if the Mormons are right – then there are only 144,000 people going to heaven and I think that somehow they filled that quota years ago. But if I am Baptists, then I believe that all Mormons are going to hell eternally, even though they are relying totally on faith that defies logic.

Is nothing really lost when each different religion demands sacrifices from the converts – Jesus said you must give up your family and every worldly possession to enter the kingdom of Heaven. But to use you as an example, you are a devoted family-man (and that is a good thing) but according to Jesus that is enough to send you to hell – or at least lock you out of the kingdom – if you believe that his every word is a word of god.

Remember – narrow is the path, and very few that are able to enter – it seems that choosing the only correct religion in the first place must be paramount in making sure you are on the right path, and not the broad path that leads to destruction. The odds are against you choosing the right one, even if you decide to take Pascal up on his casino game in which the odds are stacked against you.

Now am I denying the existence of god? Of course not – Atheists are as bad as fundamentalists in their unbending dogmatic beliefs. Just as the existence of god cannot be proved, even “His” word says so, the non-existence of God can not be proved – it is impossible to prove a negative.

Beyond that – if there is a god – what is the nature of this “being” if it even be a being? Just as ancient man anthropomorphized racks, the stars and planets and animals – we are constantly searching to explain the unexplainable. We face this finality that we call death, and seek an answer…

What or who is god? Are we gods, as is the creed of many eastern religions? (Christianity, using the broadest definition on which even most denominational Christians would not allow you to do, is still not a major player in world religions, past and present.)

So again, I will rely on what I can glean from true religion (1 John) caring for the orphans and widows (yes – evil charity – what ever happened to forcing these indigents to make their own way?) and treating your fellow human being as you would like to be treated.

RDOwensFebruary 6th, 2010 at 11:46 am

he theory is very definitely flawed – the purpose is to keep you out of hell. So, which of the thousands of gods do I choose? You see, if I choose the wrong god, the “real god” in loving charity will cast me into a lake of everlasting fire – or Sheol – or whatever that particular religion’s version of damnation or outer darkness is.

The problem is your POV. You do not choose a god . . . you live life as though there is a god. What that is will be determined by the selectee (very relative, ain’t it?). To claim that being a family man is good, you must have some concept of what a god-like existence is, eh?

Religion has been argued for millennia. I am not going to change a person’s view in a comment on a blog. Regardless, Pascal’s Wager is a sound argument for the existence of God.

CarlFebruary 6th, 2010 at 12:27 pm

POV is definitely something to be considered. However – deciding whether a trait is good or bad is not proof of a god or higher power. It may be merely proof of evolution and survival of the fittest – pack instinct, etc.

Believing that one person has no more or no less rights than another is not proof of god, but a logical deduction, and the basis to treat all human beings with dignity (until they prove they do not deserve that dignity). So, doing no ill towards another is a survival instinct – just as defense against those that do not live by the same standards.

However – Pascal argument fails in that every religion has a different god – some are more narrow than others, and if you choose the wrong religion according to another religion, you are doomed. So which god do you choose, the god that is more embracing of all of humanity? Then you have rejected Jesus that said narrow is the way – and are doomed to burn in hell forever.

But just what if Christianity does not worship the one true god? What id Mohammad was correct? Well, there are no virgins waiting for me in the afterlife, as I refuse to pray 5 times daily and I love bacon! Now if Islam insisted that I eat bacon five times daily, I just might partake of that religion – even though it decrees that all heretics should be cast away.

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